Ask the Bishop, Live
First Broadcast Live on May 12, 2004 - 3 p.m.
PLEASE READ
After many callers from Pittston called to ask Bishop Joseph F. Martino hard questions about his apparently unjustified decision to close St. Mary's School in Avoca and St. John the Baptist School in Pittston, and Bishop Martino responded to one caller with a reference to "liars" and certain pastors in the same sentence, the show went on "hiatus" for June. Not even rebroadcasts were shown, as is normall done throughtout the month after the live telecast.
We recommend calling the number listed in the official Diocese of Scranton announcement (media page) below if you would like to know when the NEXT "Ask the Bishop" will be telecast LIVE (probably in July):
*Please Note*
ASK THE BISHOP, LIVE, with Most Rev. Joseph F. Martino, Bishop of Scranton, will NOT be broadcast on Thursday, June 10 at 3:00 pm, as had been scheduled, the program is now on hiatus. CTV will return to the previously scheduled regular programming at this time.
Encores of this program scheduled for June 13 at 5:00 pm, June 15 at 9:00 pm, June 16 at 4:00 pm, and June 18 at 10:00 am, will be replaced by the “Be Not Afraid Holy Hour: The Living Eucharist”.
ASK THE BISHOP, LIVE, is a one-hour, live, call-in program produced monthly by CTV, and hosted by Maria Orzel, Executive Director of Communications, and Dan Gallagher, host/reporter for CTV. Bishop Martino answers questions live on-the-air from viewers calling in from throughout the diocese, in the CTV coverage area.
Produced and broadcast by CTV: Catholic Television, "Ask The Bishop" can be seen LIVE on CTV Monthly.
ASK THE BISHOP, LIVE, WITH Bishop Joseph F. Martino (60 min)
CALL LIVE WITH YOUR QUESTIONS: (570) 207-2219 Toll Free: (800) 246-0288
To find out more and to get exact dates of the next LIVE broadcast with Bishop Martino, go to www.DioceseofScranton.org, then click on "Media", then "Catholic Television".
Ask the Bishop Live is listed under "Monthly Specials".
Transcripts of calls from Committee of Concerned Parents
These calls are NOT in the order they were on the show, but rather in the order of the transcriptions received by this web site from the transcribers.
Caller 1 - Mark from Bear Creek:
So, uh, what we're concerned about is that,uh, more than 30% of parish subsidies are being paid out to schools- eh, the parish schools. And, uh, that is nationally known as a benchmark. If you start paying more than 30% of a parish income to support the parish school, the parish is in trouble because it cannot support liturgical probrams. Many of our - please understand this - many of our public school children are not, underscore, NOT receiving adequate Christian instruction because many of the parishes claim they can't afford to buy them books for example, and things like that.
So, uh, we have at least one instance of a parish paying 60% of its income to keep the Catholic school open. Uh, that's got to be addressed.
So, no, I have no idea, uh, where you may have gotten that information. And I beg everyone in the, uh, TVLand there to understand that what you hear from your neighbor just may not be the truth. And I hope you'll understand that, uh, um it's important to make phone calls like this to the offices of the Diocese to get the correct information.
That's what's really going to be helping. Not a lot of rumor and not a lot of gossip.
Bishop Martino responds:
Joseph from Pittston:
My question is: Why did you think it was necessary to exempt our parish priests and our parents and our principals and administrators from the decisions, uh, affecting our children."
Note from Webmasters:ALL ums, ahs, ers, uhs, and other non-words, of which there are many, have been edited out from Bishop Martino's response in order to expedite the transcription process.
Bishop Martino Responds:
Number two. I think that there is perhaps an idea out there that collaboration means that every single one of us is perfectly equal. I hope you'll understand something here. Collaboration means that all of us brings to a discussion our unique roles. And the unique role that I bring to this discussion is that I am the only bishop of the Diocese of Scranton. And I am the one on whose desk the buck lands.
If I see a situation where the discussion is going nowhere, but the financial bleeding is continuing to occur, I have no choice but to make hard decisions.
I have made one and I will continue to make these things because that is where I'll be judged by God.
So I hope that you will understand that I can't answer all of your question without getting into a lot of personal references that really are not the matter that I can be discussing in public. I will be addressing these issues in private with the individuals concerned.
But, at times, I mentioned recently for example, that your children were in a burning building and you had to get them out of there you would do so and you certainly wouldn't have a discussion about it. And that's what I was doing here.
When you have a great difficulty and there's financial bleeding, you don't sit around discussing it. You start making moves here.
And I really do regret the fact that it was communicated very poorly and an awful lot of people were inconvenienced. But I think that sometimes in life there are growning pains as well as death pains. And I think we are seeing growing pains here. And I hope that people will continue to cooperate as they have where we have a whole new future for Catholic education in the Pittston area.
"...I look up at your window and pray for you. I know you are having difficult times.
The other thing is, the second part of this comment, which you may not like is I am from St. John the Baptist and I do want you to ask to please state clearly for everyone exactly how much St. John the Baptist did owe. Because people are under the misconception that this one million dollar blanket number that is being named is what St. John's owed. And I believe that they only owed $70,000.
So, I mean, in fairness to all of us who have contributed so much to the school to keep it frugal and, and to all the steps that were taken by the principal to keep it cost-effective, please clear that up- exactly how much was owed.
And here's the question:: based on your charts that I took off the Diocese of Scranton web site, there were 462 children baptised at churches within walking distance of St. John the Baptist since 1998. Not including St. Mary's Assumption Church or St. Mary's Help of Christian because, of course, they have their own school.
And nothing was ever done to promote the enrollment in these schools (SJB and SMA) in the past two years when this extensive study you say was being done: no letters, no billboards, no- nothing whatsoever.
And I really want to know why something wasn't done. Why just chop- like you like to analogize the schools to ,like, "they have to close so that you can heal". But why amputate when you could have, just maybe, given a little therapy. Thank you."
Bishop Martino responds:
Well, I can't answer that, I can't answer that. And I'll tell you why I can't answer that. The reason why a diocese is divided up into parishes is that the local community will be served according to the local community's individual needs.
We don't have just one parish in the entire Diocese of Scranton because we have 355,000 people scattered across 11 counties. I was out in Williamsport yesterday.
So the reason why the Diocese is divided into parishes is to make sure that each local area is well served. The bishop cannot be everywhere. Cannot be everywhere throughout the 200+ parishes we have.
So, if you have questions about why recruitment wasn't being done down there, you have to refer those to your local leaders. I do not know that. First of all, I wasn't here. Secondly, I can't answer why things are not done at the local level. We are not running every parish out of 315 Wyoming Avenue. The headquarters of the Diocese of Scranton.
In regard to the indebtedness of you parish: I have the exact fitures in my head but I prefer not to give those over the air because I think that could be something very inflammatory. And I really believe it is not the business of the Bishop to be discussing the business of an individual parish over the air.
So, if you write a letter to me I will see what answer I can get to you or have given to you in the proper way. But I really cannot, in a public venue like this, be discussing such private information.
End of call
"Hi. Good afternoon. Um, I was at Mount Carmel when you addressed the children and their parents of St. John the Baptist. And I also have you on video saying that the 18 priests whose names were listed on the letter we received of the closing of the schools - that they had voted, and, and I use that word "voted"...
Now, I believe it was (two priests named) have stated that there was never any, any vote on the closing of the schools. Can you please clarify why you said that there was a vote. I feel that I'm being, I'm being not told the truth somewhere. Can you please answer this please?"
Bishop Martino responds:
And I will say this much- that, when I was somewhat surprised to find several dozens of people, nearly, over maybe 200 people, on the steps waiting to see me before I went in to give a talk at a parish in Pittston, I may not have been exactly on my toes. So, if I used the word vote, I was describing something that happened after I left the room.
My impression was that the pastors decided, we'll use that word- decided- that thee announcement would be made immediately and they would go ahead with the plan.
There are, as far as I am concerned, about 18 different versions. And priests have told me this, who were in that room, about 18 different versions of what happened in that room.
And I absolutely refuse to get into the position of refereeing what the truth may have been to an event that I absolutely did not witness personally, but others have witnessed, and have told me what I just told you. That this was something that was agreed to and that if there are now those who are saying that it was not agreed to- you are asking me again to get into a war of words with my priests and my people. And I will not descend to that. Now, or ever in the futures.
No further comment was allowed and/or given from Sharon
(The usual pleasantries were exchanged between Bishop Martino and Joy). Then...
Joy asks:
"I am just calling to see if there's any plans or if there is anything going to be discussed concerning the future of St. John the Baptist in Pittston, the parish itself?"
Bishop Martino responds:
A study has been done of what we call the demographics, which is the population information about the Diocese of Scranton, where it's growing, where it's diminishing. Scranton is an area, not only of shifting populations, but of growth, here and there, as well. So, I am a bishop who has to face, not only the challenge of dealing with parishes where the population has declined, but also of a number of parishes where the population is booming.
For example, we have now 20,000 Hispanics in the Diocese of Scranton. That's about double what it was about ten years ago, and it's going to climb and we have to provide for these Catholics. We are obligated, as we provided for the many, many immigrant groups from which I'm descended, for example, in the past.
I would say, I have no idea that St. John the Baptist is being examined right now. It doesn't mean that it won't be in the future, along with all of the other parishes of the diocese. But one of the interesting facts that came out when the priests were together was the fact that in 1960 there were 442 priests. As I sit here right now we have 221- 50% of the priests there were 40 years ago. There are just about the same number of parishes and places where Mass needs to be said now as there were 40 years ago. There has been no change in the obligations priests have to take on, but there are 50% less priests. So that means 50% of the priests are doing 100% more work.
And I don't think there is anybody in the world that would expect their coworkers to take on 100% more work than they've already done, especially since our priests are aging, as well.
And we need more vocations. I beg you all out there to be praying for more priests so that we might have our parishes and other institutions adequately staffed.
But I, again, I find a great cross since I've come here. The strength of the rumor mill in this diocese - people believe as gospel truth what their neighbor happens to tell them, and at the risk of sounding insulting to my new family here, I beg you, please to consider that a great temptation.
If something is said to you, please dial the diocesan offices and find out whether it's true. Do not just rely on the fact that someone has said so as to make it true, and I believe that all parishes will be, in the near future, undergoing some planning. We have to do that because we cannot go on to give our ever declining future, undergoing some planning. We have to do that because we cannot go on to give our ever declining number of priests, percentages, increasing percentages of work to do that they can't handle right now."
Moderator speaks, introduces caller 6.
(The usual pleasantries were exchanged between Bishop Martino and Marie). Then...
Marie asks:
"I would like to know how the diocese can justify closing schools when the diocese is loaning money to Gabriel House, whose residents have access to public funding, in addition to the priests from St. John Society spending exorbitant amounts of furniture, and a half million dollars for a Prayer Garden*?.
I understand the need for finances, I certainly have been involved in that enough, but I just think that our finances are going in a way where they shouldn't be going, as opposed to teaching Catholic students so that we can continue on in the church."
(*Prayer Garden: caller is referring to the stone and granite area between St. Peter's Rectory, which is Bishop Martino's towering residence, and the St. Peter's Convent in the area of 315 Wyoming Avenue in Scranton.)
Bishop Martino responds:
And so I hope you will understand that I am not free to discuss on the air what my relationship is with a particular group of priests in this diocese. But I want you to know that, privately, I am doing plenty. And at the proper time, I will discuss this with you, but not at the moment. I can't do that.
In regard to the Prayer Garden next to the Cathedral, others have said the same thing. All I know is, when I came here, is, it was mentioned to me, that half of that was paid for by one donor and the rest in donations, so perhaps we need to get people to be as equally generous to our Catholic schools.
However, I can assure you, $500,000 would not have taken care of the situation that was going on in Pittston. That would have been one year, perhaps. What would we have done in subsequent years? And teh diocese does not have that kind of money to pour half a million dollars into one section.
I know this probably hurts your to hear this, but you've got to hear the hard facts and understand them. And, also, there are many, many areas that are equally distressed and which one will I pick, and which one will I reject to assist with $500,000 per annum, and there was another section to the question I don't know if I addressed."
Moderator: Gabriel House
Bishop:"Yes, Gabriel House*. I must say, maam, that is something that I am not familiar with. So, I have been here 7 and 1/2 months now so that I am not quite sure what you mean by that. If you bring that question to the office of Catholic Social Services, I am sure they can answer that for you, or to the Office for Communications they can direct that question to the right person.
But I think there's a perception that if we took all the money spent on these projects and just directed them at one school, that school would be fine forever. I think that' ssomething we have to get over, that somehow a quick fix of even a million dollars would assist a school.
Besides, these are parish schools. The diocese cannot run a parish school. The diocese is responsible for all the parishes and all the parishes were establised to take care of the people and students in a given territorial area or for people of a particular ethnic background. And if that particular place cannot handle that, the diocese can come to assistance with advice and, maybe some temporary aid. **But for that to go on year after year is unfair to the other parishes from which the money of the diocese comes."
** Webmasters' Note: AGAIN, this is another innuendo that St. John the Baptist owed a great part of the $1MILLION dollars that Bishop Martino has told everyone who will listen is the reason he is shutting down the school. NOT TRUE! The actual figure is about $70,000 owed by the parish- not an astounding sum for a parish to owe. Bishop Martino, in a previous call, refused to clarify exactly what St. John the Baptist owed, and has allowed the public to draw their own conclusions when he keeps talking about the $1MILLION owed by ALL of the many, many Pittston Area churches (this includes Wyoming, Exeter, Harding, Avoca, Dupont, Duryea, etc.)
*Gabriel House: This is the former St. John the Evangelist Convent which is located directly across the street from St. John the Baptist School, on William St. in Pittston, PA.(SJB is targed for closure by Bishop Joseph F. Martino.)
The Diocese of Scranton (under the Catholic Social Services department) took out a Diocese's Gabriel House (Pittston) Loan = $1MILLION+ in December 2003 and, shortly after they announced the closing of SJB AND got everyone registered at 4 other schools, they began the renovation project of the Gabriel House. 16 apartments will be rented to the underprivileged and this rent will, we believe, be Federally subsidized. Projected value of the building is set at nearly $3Million after renovations, and the gov't funding should make it a profit-making business venture.
MORE TO COME.
St. John the Baptist Elementary School in Pittston (1917- June 4,2004) and Saint Mary's Grade School in Avoca, PA (1919 - June 4,2004), closed on June 4, 2004 despite a long battle, which included a lawsuit filed by parents of SJB, to keep them opened.
"Good afternoon, Your Excellency.
Bishop Martino Response
"Good afternoon, Mark. How are you?"
Mark:
"Oh, I'm fine. I have a question. Um, will the new Catholic School Restructuring plan ultimately call for thee parents to pay for 100% of the Catholic School education through tuition?"
Bishop Martino Response:
"Um, that certainly is, uh, not, uh, anything that I'm aware of. Uh, so, um, I don't wanted to be,uh, quoted here as saying something that,uh, I haven't really studied that, uh, carefully but, uh, that certainly doesn't sound like something that,uh, would make any sense. I know of no place in the country outside of private Catholic schools where thee,uh, tuition is what supports the school. Even there, uh, the private school that I went to in Philadelphia, for example, uh,was supported not only by tuition but by endowment and by alumni collectons.
Thank you, Mark."
Caller 2 - Joseph from Pittston
Caller 2 - Joseph from Pittston:
"Hi, Your Excellency"
"Hi, Joseph. How are you?"
"I have two daughters at St. John the Baptist School. And we know that 18 months ago Father Paisley requested a look into Catholic education in our Region. But since then not one priest has, uh, worked on this plan. Not one priest has owned up to working on the plan.
"Thank you, Joseph, for answering that question.
First of all, it shows you the difficulty I have in answering many of these questions here. And that is that I need to get into a, shall we say, a battle of words with my people and a battle of words with my priests. And I just will not have that. Number one.
Caller 3 - Mary Ann from West Wyoming
Caller 3 - Mary Ann from West Wyoming:
(First part of the conversation, not available at this moment but will be added later, addressed the Prayer Garden at St. Peter's Cathedral. Mary Ann commented that she often goes to the Prayer Garden to pray - including looking up at Bishop Martino's window and praying for him. She suggests that the Prayer Garden not be closed at 5pm on nice days. The conversation continues below.)
"You're very welcome. That's a very helpful series of questions. Permit me to try and respond to them. I'll start with the last question. And that is why there was not more recruitment done.
(webmasters' note: yesterday means Tuesday, May 11...he was also there on May 4th for a graduation)
You know, that's an hour and forty-five minutes- a beautiful drive from Scranton. And you go through state forests, you go through rural areas- the areas that once were famous for lumbering and now are heavily involved in dairy farms and what have you which is totally different from what you see here in the Wyoming Valley from Hazelton up to Carbondale, for example.
Caller 4 - Sharon from Pittston
Caller 2 - Sharon from Pittston:
"Well, now, uh, let me ask you this. Do you really expect me on the air to tell you that your priests are liars? So, I'm afraid I really cannot answer that question.
(Webmasters' note: how that can be true? There were 18 different pastors at the meeting. THREE of them addressed parents on April 18th, and those three all agreed to one version...there was NO VOTE.)
Caller 5 - Joy
Caller 5 - Call from Joy:
"No, I, (stuttering) let me step back here and say, every institution, every parish, every school, every institution run by the Diocese of Scranton is, as we begin to progress further into the 21st Century, is in the next few years, going to have to be examined and looked at. We have to put new (note: sounds like) wine into new wine skins. I am not going to start a stampede of closing churches and schools, or anything like that. But let me give you a significant fact that came out recently at the convocation of priests.
Caller 6 - Marie
Caller 5 - Call from Marie:
"Once again, a question is directed at me that I can only asnwer in a limited way. When you mentioned the Society of St. John and the amount of money they have spent, that is a situation that I have under constant review, and I am addressing that with the superiors of that organization. They know my mind on this, and I will not tolerate any group of priests in this diocese inappropriately spending money.
There were a total of 10 calls regarding school closings. Not all transcripts are available here.
FINAL NOTE
Many of the students' parents have, as a result of their disillusionment with Bishop Joseph F. Martino, the Diocese of Scranton,and the Catholic Schools office, enrolled the children in public school.
